Monday, May 18, 2009


Words can't even...

I am seething with rage right now:

“Like NRL boss David Gallop, who advised a ban on group sex, Gould seems to be suggesting that the only way to avoid accusations of rape (or, as he more obnoxiously terms it, "dramas") is to avoid engaging in "pack sex," even when everyone involved has given their consent.”

In my opinion, the only way to avoid being raped as well is to avoid having indiscriminate sex. While this poor woman’s consent in no way justifies rape, our 21st century justified promiscuity forgets the very reason why sex, and sexuality, used to be confined to the bedroom rather than the public forum. If society as a whole could return to those good old fashioned values instead of claiming that discretion as “in the closet” we’d likely see far less rapes and rape allegations. Frankly, I’m sick of hearing/reading/viewing everyone’s sex lives and sexual dysfunctions. It’s like mothers who allow their children to play in the streets then become outraged if they get hit by cars or kidnapped. Kids, like sex, belong at home.
This comment has been removed by the author.
That "Code of Silence" that groups will maintain is damn scary. Who will admit fault and/or tell on their mates while fearing being ostracized? It's amazingly disgusting the things people will do to fit in, belong. These aren't kids in junior or high school, but adults who we think can handle peer pressure and would fess up if they knew about something so horrid.

The topic of rape makes my skin crawl. So many who've been harmed and can't find the strength to tell because they may not be treated like a victim, but like dirt ... made to feel ashamed. I could vomit!
Words are so powerful. Every selection of every word on such a matter is so vital, and bares so much of everyone's views on respect and equality. Do note the choice of words when describing this girl's situation. This isn't neutral. I bet nothing of the press coverage about this has been objective. We can't even report something as serious as this anymore, without immaturely tainting it with how we want to see the world. The deification of athletes and the justifying of their crimes amazes me.

So just to get this straight, let me recap, and correct me if I'm wrong.

This girl says she consented to sex with two men (this she admits openly, no reason to presume she would lie if she'd consented to more men) and says that she was raped by the whole group. There is no evidence that she wasn't. But because she didn't scream, and because a few people who get off on selling her out make a few nasty remarks, rape is suddenly trivial? A joke? A circus? Am I even reading this right? Is this for real? Did this actually happen? People knew what was going on and they were like "sure"?

I don't think it has anything to do with promiscuity of our culture per se. Really, if a girl wants to have sex with two men, why shouldn't she be able to? I don't see why that has anything to do with promiscuous behaviour, if she simply agreed with two men to have a threesome. Naive? Perhaps. But the idea of women having to dismiss their sexual fantasies and desires, just to be safe... isn't that a little scary? If a woman wants a one-night-stand, she should be able to do so without presuming she will end up raped, murdered and dumped by the highway. It's the criminals that should be locked in, not the girls.

But perhaps I am misreading, it is 2.30 AM where I am, after all :-)
What really throws me is when you see a supposedly fun-for-the-whole-family film like "The Boat That Rocked"

*spoiler warning*

Nick Frost's character turns the lights out on a girl so that he can do his mate a favour to help him lose his virginity and "slip one in" before she notices it's not him.

*ends spoiler warning*

That's not funny.

Point being, it's not just rugby players who can get into this mentality.
By the way- whoever anonymous is at the top- I find your lack of empathy disturbing.

About a quarter of my close female friends (disgustingly within statistical range) have been raped/seriously sexually assaulted and not a one of them could have avoided it by being less promiscuous.
Lack of empathy, Cathusmax? I think you're just looking for a fight.

I too have been a victim of rape and the single most important thing I took from it is to respect my body/my self far more than I did. I've spent the last 30 years of my life trying to teach other women this same lesson before they too become victims while raising a son to see women as wonderful creatures of value to be honored, not handy ego boosts to be used.

Statistics reveal that women who engage in indiscriminate sex are far more likely to become the victims of violent sexual assaults than women who practice intelligent sex. I suggest you go talk to some women who get paid for sex; they'll tell you the same. A woman who respects herself communicates that boundary in all her encounters.

Speaking the truth is not a lack of empathy; it's a genuine desire to educate. She who has an ear, let her hear.
Anonymous, please know that I am sorry to hear about your past experiences, and respect you deeply for hearing you have gone on with your life and are taking action to help other women. This is admirable and beautiful. However, also do not get me wrong if I disagree with you on some points. It is not a personal attack at all, it is simply an observation by the things you said, to which you should respond if I have gotten it all wrong.

But you can't compare this to letting your kids play outside and them getting hit by a car! First of all, cars accidentally hit kids, men don't accidentally rape women! Second, it's the rapists that should be locked up somewhere, not the girls that should be locked into their houses to just 'not get raped'! Third and last but not least, a woman should be able to have consentual sex with two men (and especially these rugby players are well known so she must have felt safer than with complete strangers!) without having to bring a knife to bed! We have a right to persue our sexual desires, too!

Though I do understand that there are extremes that can be avoided for one's own safety, it is impossible to all prevent rape by simply hiding the women.

I just don't think women should go about in life, wondering when they'll get raped. Anyone you date who you don't know could end up being a rapist. How many women have married pedophiles, for example, without knowing it? We might as well not open shops in case they get robbed, or have kitchen knives in case someone should stab us with it. Life, unfortunately, holds a risk at all times. Painful as it is. Women should be taught to defend themselves, not to accept inferiority. Yes, we should all respect ourselves. But sexual preferences should not be made into perversions for the sake of a few very sick, badly raised men.
**It's amazingly disgusting the things people will do to fit in, belong.**

That would also explain the Holocaust, Akilah...people do anything to fit in...

**But the idea of women having to dismiss their sexual fantasies and desires, just to be safe**

That's absolutely true, J. R.
Women have to be so very self-conscious all the time...where they go, what they wear, at what time they walk home from a party.
I'm sure as HELL that men have to think so much less about such issues.

**If a woman wants a one-night-stand, she should be able to do so without presuming she will end up raped, murdered and dumped by the highway.**

Exactly my point!

**About a quarter of my close female friends (disgustingly within statistical range)**

Perfectly right, Cathusmax, one woman in four...that's FUCKING disgusting!

**A woman who respects herself communicates that boundary in all her encounters.**

To what avail, anonymous?

While it is certainly true that a certain type of behaviour might have the potential to put you more at risk as a woman, it doesn't necessarily save or protect you.
A friend of mine was drugged on a party, later raped...they put the drug into her drink while she was on the toilet.
She wasn't wearing a mini-skirt, she wasn't into a one-night-stand, she wasn't in any way attracting "male attention"...still she was raped and has had to live with the consequences...since the guy was a police officer, she never had the guts to press charges against him.
I don't know if something similar happened to my mother, but she was always ADAMANT that I never ever leave my drink alone on the table...She would rather I order a brand new drink instead of drinking what was left in the glass - even if the glass was full.
Needless to say, I NEVER leave my glass sitting on the table in a pub/restaurant...I always drink up before I go to the restrooms.

And that brings me to my final question...WHY BOTHER??!!

Why is it OUR fucking business to PROTECT ourselves against these dysfunctional men? It's not about sex, it's about dominance and power.
Why should WE be so extra-careful? Not wear this or that outfit, not walk the streets at night, not leave our fucking drinks on the table??

*W*H*Y* ???

THEY shouldn't be doing this, period!! And these individuals should be put in jail until the fucking cows come home!

But in our time and day, rape is still being considered by some as a *minor misdemeneanor*. IT SO ISN'T!
THAT'S what I find outrageous!
As long as society believes that it is the woman's job to "protect herself properly", and as long as people assume that the woman herself is at least partly responsible, as long as that's the case, rapists will get away with 2 to 3 years in jail (*IF* they get that much). If they were given a LIFE-SENTENCE things might change!!

Look at Catholicism and other major religions...the place a woman holds in these religions says everything! The woman as the servile, submissive, obedient long as this image is predominant (or even existant) in our minds and equally in the minds of our male counter-parts, women will have to put up with being *male dominion*...

We are our *own dominion*...we weren't born to please males or to adjust to their expectations...or to limit ourselves in our own being in order to protect ourselves from the dysfunctional and aberrant (not to mention repulsive and disgusting) behaviour of some males.
Brilliantly put, Olga!
oh god. the world.
if you feel like more seething:
I assure you I wasn't looking for a fight. I've just remembered why I gave myself a 12pm embargo on posting online- anything before that isn't going to come across how I mean with any degree of subtlety.

I saw the phrase "old-fashioned values" and my mind immediately brought up images of girls too ashamed to tell their families, rape not being a crime in marriages and all that cacophony of crap that we'll be dealing with for the forseeable future.

I still don't believe this woman's choice to sleep with two men is equivocal with being indiscriminately promiscuous or choosing differently would have prevented her from being so viciously exploited.

I fully intend to raise any kids with the ethos that you've proposed about self-respect and I'm proud of the way that my friends with children already are doing that.

Apologies if I misunderstood you, but I did take what you said about "keeping sex in the bedroom resulting in far fewer rape allegations" as an indication that everything should be kept behind closed doors. It's been behind closed doors for centuries!

Now dehumanising sex and women with everything that you mentioned? Absolutely.

Sorry it’s taken me so long to get back to you, Dears. Your posts are very interesting. But if anyone thinks I’m advocating sexual abstinence for the sake of personal safety, nothing could be further from the truth. I enjoy a grand roll in the hay just like you do, even at my age. That’s not the message I’m offering.

Your generation of women have the sexual “freedom” you proclaim because of the suffering and sacrifices of my generation’s women. That’s a fact. Here’s another. My attacker got off scot-free under the age-old legal defense that his victim was “asking for it.” How was I asking for it? Because it was the 60s and we ALL were wearing mini-skirts! I wasn’t trolling the bars for a one-night lay, my tits weren’t hanging out of my blouse like ripe melons, I was just there in a public place trying to enjoy harmless events. And the rest, as they say, is history. I’m sure many of you have friends with similar stories. There are rape events in this world that no one asks for, just like the young woman in this case Emma posted for discussion. And it reads to me as if this poor woman is also stuck in a Neanderthal culture and her case will probably go down the same way as mine.

And your response is to post one and another message to each other expressing your outrage, enormous sympathy and your hatred for men who could do such a thing. Lock them up, you say, so we women can continued to screw our brains out at will whenever we want, with whomever we want, and remain safe. You call that sexual freedom. I’m sorry, Ladies, I call it stupid. Here’s the reality. While America has made great strides on how we see and deal with sexual assault cases, men, unfortunately, have not kept up with the evolution. Men are still Neanderthals and in most cultures men still hold almost all the power and control. Men have very little control over themselves once sexually aroused. Add alcohol and drugs to that arousal and you will most definitely be at risk for rape. That’s THEIR reality that WE have to protect ourselves from. Does it justify rape? Hell no! Does it put all the responsibility for our safety on us? Hell yes! I wouldn’t trust anyone else as much as I trust myself and especially not some drunken wanker I don’t know or barely know. Would you? Waving your “right” to boff on demand will protect you from getting raped how? The sad reality is, it doesn’t. It’s just a liberated rant without teeth, Ladies, until we adjust our thinking to use it RESPONSIBLY. When my generation of women won you your sexual liberty, Ladies, it was within the understanding that you would use that right responsibly to keep yourselves and one another safe. Yes, lock those bastards up who raped this poor woman and every other woman and child in the world. But that’s only half the problem. Here’s why.
Did you know that most women who engage in risky sexual behavior have already suffered some form of sexual assault in their earlier experiences? Now vulnerable and instinctively prone to dangerous behaviors, they are even more vulnerable for subsequent assaults, will even put themselves at risk because of low self esteem and the mistaken belief that sex equals acceptance, even love. Women like this Australian one, like me, like many of you and your friends need protection from further violence while becoming re-empowered with a right belief system regarding sex, their value as women and their proper place in a dangerous society where they can be safe. And it is my responsibility, your responsibility, to do whatever we can to protect our vulnerable sisters, many of whom may well be ourselves. Don’t we teach our children how to watch out for, identify and protect themselves from “Stranger Danger?” Why is so offensive to you now that I, as an older woman and mother would try to deliver the same message to you.

This is the message I have been conveying for the last 30 years. I’ve spent that 30 years in law to ensure that the American justice system is accountable for locking them up and getting them whatever help they need to change their behaviors as well. That didn’t happen by telling women to stop having sex altogether. That happened by helping them understand that the men who violated them are worse than shit, that ANY man who would use a woman for sex, or power and control (which is the ONLY agenda underlying rape, not sex) should be avoided at all costs. I believe your generation calls some of these men “players”…they’ll say and do anything just to get into your pants. My generation had them too. We called them scum.

One of you asked, in a roundabout way, how we women can know who we’re going out with, going to bed with, giving our bodies, our children, our safety too. I’m glad you asked. You can know and you can know it before you put yourselves in a vulnerable situation with a man you don’t know. But then you’d have to delay exercising your sexual rights in order to find out, and if I’m reading you right, that’s unacceptable.

I have lectured on this topic for years, and I would love nothing more than to post it here since my sweet Emma opened the door. But I won’t. All I want you Ladies to do is think about ALL sides of this situation, ALL responsibilities inherent to the sexual freedoms you have, and ALL the ways in which we can help ourselves and one another stay safe from assholes like this. Just think about it. What would you say to this poor woman if you were her friend? All the sympathy in the world, though merited without doubt, does NOTHING to prevent this from happening again or rectify the damage done. With the sympathy, wouldn’t you too give her the tools to recover and overcome bad judgment, dangerous behavior and shit-men? If not, don’t bother pouring out the sympathy. Think about it. And don’t shoot the messenger.

P.S. In response to one of your posts, yes, cars ACCIDENTLY run over children and rapists don’t. But mothers don’t ACCIDENTLY allow their kids to run rampant where cars, not people, have passage. How stupid is it to scream outrage when your child’s been killed that they, not the accidental driver, had the right to be in the street? Kids, like sex, belong at home under the supervision of a responsible adult. Precious gifts like children, and our sexuality, come with responsibility. If you don’t want the responsibility, don’t accept the gifts. That’s reality. That’s what keeps us and our children safe. Not ranting about rights and locking everyone up who doesn’t respect them. Respect yourselves, and use your gifts and your rights responsibly and you probably won’t have to suffer rape or your children killed. Prevention, Ladies, has ALWAYS been worth far more than a pound of cure, and delaying sexual activity until you KNOW a partner is safe to be with is little price to pay. End of lecture.
**Men have very little control over themselves once sexually aroused.**

You're basically saying that men haven't evolved into "homo sapiens sapiens", that they're basically on the same evolutionary level as say "homo erectus" (or as "Neandertals" as you put it - **Men are still Neanderthals**) - it's their nature, they can't help it...
It's basically *beyond their control*, did I get that right?

With all due respect (and I can clearly understand why this is a highly emotional issue for you), but I find your some of your statements downright *discriminatory*.
Face it, we're all reigned by our sex-drive, men and women alike. That's human nature and there is NOTHING wrong with it per se.

Most importantly, you are referring to highly *dysfunctional* individuals (males).
I have a brother and I had a father and I don't see any of them capable of such a heinous act.

As much as I would call myself some type of feminist, I have to take the side of the men this time and I have to say that some of your statements are downright sexist and they really cross a line in my book.

Number one, not all men (males) are potential rapists (far from that).

Number two, males are not victims of their own sex-drive. Most males that I've encountered so far have at least had enough control over their sex-drive in order to refrain from raping every woman they find sexually attractive (or any woman who was available at that moment in time).

Number three, rape has very little to do with being sexually aroused, you don't rape someone because you cannot control your sex-drive. *Dysfunctional males* rape because they want to exercice power, period.

Number four, that's my last statement regarding this issue, as I'm not prepared to further discuss such a delicate issue with someone who is displaying the same type of prejudice and derogatory attitude that we as women are all too often subjected to.

I can sympathize with you in so far that I can understand where you're coming from, but describing 50 % of the world population as being under-developed Neandertals with a penchant for rape takes it too far in my book, lightyears too far.

PS: Male dominance in certain countries/cultures is first and foremost engendered by *cultur* (tradition, customs etc.), not by genetics.
Stone, you take my comments WAY out of proportion to promote your own ideas. While you have the right to speak your opinion, you do not have the right to misrepresent mine in the process.

I agree with you that not all men lack sufficient control to commit rape. I too have a father, several brothers and a son, and none of them would ever think about violence. But the simple biological fact remains that men, once sexually aroused, do not possess as much ability as women to control their behavior. As I said, couple that with alcohol and/or drugs, and it could well be a dangerous cocktail.

Couple that even more with a severely dysfunctional male psyche who needs to dominate and abuse women to feel in control of his sick world, and the risk to any unsuspecting woman is too great in my book. As I said before rape is NOT about sex; it is solely about power and control and until you know your partner WELL, you will not be safe. If that is the risk you wish to take upon yourself for a few moments of hedonistic sexual gratification, I'd have to wonder if you too aren't a milder form of sexual predator.

What do we want sexual equality with men for? To be predators, self-indulgent hedonists at their expense? Doesn't that make us as unevolved as they? No self respecting man would behave that way; no self respecting woman would either.

The ONLY salient issue to be discussed in all this is not who's right and who's wrong, men vs. women, misogynists vs. men haters. Those arguments, frankly, are a waste of time.

That issue is simply this...Women must take responsibility for their own safety before engaging in any activities that could put them in harm's way. It is entirely possible for ALL women to learn how to distinguish safe partners from dangerous partners long before the sex act ever occurs. Many women have, many more will. Many women don't, far too many end up with broken hearts feeling used in the least, raped and/or dead in the most. The risk is far too high in my opinion and the cost of waiting to have sex with anyone until you really, really know them is nominal in the exchange.

Accepting that truth is essential if we as a gender and a culture intend to diminish the risk to ourselves and others and successfully limit the number of victims of violent sexual crime.

We are all gung ho on using condoms in the name of safe sex. We are all gung ho on designating sober drivers to take our drunken arses home on Saturday night. Why is my encouragement to take yet one more simple step to wait to have sex with ANYONE until you really get to know him well enough to ensure your own safety so egregious?

I've already posted way more than I ever intended to on this blog so I will stop here. Whatever value my simple message may have to those who really need and want to hear it, please take it freely with my best wishes for great health and enjoyment in life. For the rest, feel free to take it all out proportion as you will..afterall, you do have that right.
Your choice of words, Olga, despite some very good points, doesn't strengthen your point. They make you sound almost more angry at women than at men when it comes to this subject.

To accuse people of a particular generation, who feel that women should be able to persue their sexual desires, of "screwing their brains out" is simply too easy. It is unrefined, and frankly quite unrespectful.

What I am trying to tell you, as me (and I presume I was one of the people you were talking to, given I'd replied to you), is that I'm a woman who's only had one partner, but if I ever feel attracted to someone I don't know that well, I should be able to persue it. Losing trust in all human beings is not the solution for me, though it might be for you. And coming back with something like "your generation" and "screw your brains out" is simply a cheap shot with no relevance to the people having the discussion. I suggest you give us more credit, just like we've all expressed that how horrible it is that this had to happen to you.

Personally I resent the idea that everyone who leaves their house (because that is still essentially what you're saying) has "whatever" coming. A friend of mine had a car crash and died, are you going to relativate that down to "Well, that's the risk you take"? Is it intellectually a correct statement? Yes. Is a statement a sympathetic heart would make? Not in my opinion.

If we think like that, we can just boil it down to one thing; we all die, shit happens to all of us, and we all deserve it for existing. There you go, case closed.
I just want to thank you all for the respect and care you are working to show each other, despite the emotions this has raised.
Thank you Emma for giving us the room for it :-)

Anonymous, I would also like to add that in the end, how do we even know if we know a person? As has been said before; how many women find out too late that they are married to someone who wasn't what he said he was? Not every potential rapist of sex offender is going to go around trying to hit a knock out in the first round, so to speak.

Wives get raped by their husbands, too. Daughters get raped by their fathers or family friends. Is that an inherent risk, too? There are some sick people out there. Presuming that we are safe by giving them a test of time isn't a fool proof method.

We can't control, direct and categorize the world that easily. It simply doesn't work that way. To tell yourself that you can ever fully know another person is foolish, because we will never be inside their heads as we are in our own. Not all predetors are stupid.
Thanks, Emma, for your encouraging post. Sexuality has always been a very incendiary topic in any forum which, in my mind, always serves to prove that the human race isn’t as sexually liberated as we convince ourselves we are.

JR, I love your post. It is genuine, heartfelt and honest. And it asks some really, really good questions. Some of the examples you cite remind me of cases I’ve worked in my professional life as well. I can tell you this from that personal experience, when you stand at autopsy tables witnessing the utter devastation of violent sexual crimes on women, little girls and boys, the impact of that horrid reality changes your thinking in a life changing way. For me, suddenly all my loyalty to sexual liberty and rights departed and what was left was a profound intention to keep that from happening to me and any one else I could help throughout my life no matter what the sacrifices required. So I will try to articulate what I’ve learned for whatever value it may have to you.

The health, and safety, of human relationships is only as good as the health (emotional and psychological) of both participants. While we are trying to sort out how we could really know another, we should also be constantly examining ourselves. No one knows it all, no one is a font of total wisdom and truth. We are human and therefore we are all flawed and should continually work to increase our body of knowledge about life and how we fit in. When we have “baggage” from childhood, past relationships and experiences, that baggage subconsciously operates to skew our relationship skills until we may discover one day that we are in a repetitive behavior pattern that, ultimately, we grow uncomfortable with. If we have substance abuse/addiction problems of any kind, those only add to the dysfunctional cognitive and behavioral issues we use to have relationships. And the plain fact about those dysfunctional relationship skills is that as they perpetuate they pick up steam and intensity, with each new experience more out of whack, more dangerous to our health and safety until it builds to some crisis event that acts as intervenor to take us off that track and onto another…if we survive. It is for this reason alone that we examine ourselves and fix whatever those issues are so that they then can subconsciously operate to enhance better relationship skills which means we will be attracting or choosing healthier people to have them with and having more rewarding relationships with them.

That being said, based upon where someone is at right now, learning new skills on how to really, really know another becomes all the more important. I would encourage everyone toward willingness to lay aside what you believe, what you know about sexuality and relationships to do some study on basic psychology issues (both male and female) to start, then examine your own beliefs about sexuality and relationships in comparison. There are plenty of women, like me, all over the world who conduct seminars or outreach programs that are free for attendance. They are excellent resources for learning these skills and a little more about yourself and others. We are all works in progress and events, such as this Australian case, can serve as triggers to us to learn more and adopt healthier attitudes and behaviors to enhance our quality of life.
I've read all the comments here a few times over the past few days. And, the discussion may well be over at this point, but I've literally dreamt about one statement I read here:

What would you say to this woman if she were your friend?

I feel like I have to say from personal experience that the ONLY right response when a woman you care for is raped would be:

This was not your fault in any way.

Even people with good intentions seem to want to come up with some explanation or justification and in a general discussion such as this one, that may be a good thing. But, a woman or a young girl who has been violated in this way really needs to hear that the rapist and only the rapist is to blame for what he did, especially from her friends.
Thank you for explaining so elaborately, Anonymous! But first I'd like to bring in what Kai said, repeat it just because it makes so much sense.

Kai, that is a brilliant remark. I hadn't even thought of it in that way directly, but it must be at the very root of how I feel about it. "This was not your fault." And it wasn't her fault, and I resent the idea that it could have been her fault. It's like saying it's my cat's fault that a shelve came down somewhere, three days after he jumped up on it. It's not fair. It feels like a very unemotional way of approaching humans, who are essentially emotional beings. Yes, you could calculate that the cat's weight added to the failing of the shelve to stay up. You could. It's one of the many things that weighed in. The question is; should we be addressing women's behaviour as a factor in rape? I personally truly do not think so, because I think other factors (such as the predator's mental state of unwellness) are in more urgent need of being addressed and dealt with.

But yes, Anonymous, evaluating yourself and becoming conscious of your own emotional defects and dangers is never ever a bad thing. And yes, I also agree that doing so might change some women's sexual behaviour, as for some it is a way of dealing with emotional issues. Taking good care of your soul is never a bad idea, and perhaps it does add a sensibility that will at least make you less vulnerable.

Can we agree on that, then? That helping women look at their emotional patterns is generally a really good thing, helping women develop a positive self esteem is generally a good thing? To what degree it would bring down the rape rates I do not know - rape has been going on since the beginning of society. But will it make us less vulnerable and happier in general? Absolutely.
Haven't had time to read all the responses thoroughly...but let me say that first of all, I discuss these subjects in depth with people whom I know, on the internet. I don't know who Anonymous is or even if she is a woman. Therefore I'm leaving my personal experiences out of it.

I find the comment that we should lock children up in their homes to keep them from getting run over by cars sad. Children are supposed to go out and play. I spend most of my childhood outdoors. As for "indiscriminate sex" it's true that there is such a thing as good judgment. But good judgment doesn't always keep you from being raped. (And since keeping your children locked up at home IS child abuse, that isn't going to keep your children safe, either).

Men in all-male groups seem to frequently suffer a loss of superego (mob mentality). It's not just athletes although they seem to be among the worst offenders. I have two male patients who've worked in all-male or mostly male environments, in finance and sales. The social cultures revolve around going to strip clubs, hookers, sexual jokes/harassment etc. Of course the worst group male organization is the military and we hear frequently about their rapes and atrocities; in fact this is a historical fact of wartime. I believe the homoeroticism and resulting anxiety in all-male groups is part of the impetus for the group rapes of women and other aggressive heterosexual behavior. The idea they might want to fuck each other is so frightening, they have to go out and aggressively fuck women and in a mob mentality, and perhaps especially when the profession is aggressive (sports, the military) this turns into rape more often than not.

Keeping in mind the above, I think what I would tell a young woman is to avoid groups aggressive young men. If you meet a nice guy in a bar/hotel who's there with a friend and you're there with a friend (who can call the police if necessary), a one-night stand can be safe, at least as safe as dating a boyfriend/husband who have in fact been known to rape their girlfriends/wives.
I know it's months' past but here's another seeth
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